"But I miss you most of all my darling
When autumn leaves start to fall"

Hisoutensoku is an expansion to Touhou 10.5, made by Tasofro with ZUN's approval. It's a fast paced fighting game featuring all your favorites from the touhou project.

Sign up at https://challonge.com/tournaments/signup/DCgTRNWqwL or reply so I can add you manually.

View the bracket at https://challonge.com/wapsoku9

I've setup the game myself so all you have to do is download https://files.wapchan.org/sokupack.zip, run SokuLauncher.exe, and choose the first option (giuroll). may need to update the launcher first.

Wiki: https://hisouten.koumakan.jp/

This tournament will be livestreamed at https://stream.wapchan.org/r/sokutourney

We may test out 2v2 matches and Soku2 afterwards.

PREVIOUS CHAMPS:
I - superplapper
II - Az
III - Az
IV - sixty
V - Duck
VI - Az
VII - superplapper
VIII - sixty
299 posts and 64 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 

Was there a trick to make the AI die faster in pofv? I can recall there was but I forgot.

 

>>3246
does picking Aya or Medicine count as a trick

 

>>3247
No…

 

>>3246
Dying a couple of times to them?.. As far as I'm concerned PoFV's AI has hidden timer like in extra mode and can dodge in bullshitiest situations if it really wants to unless you pick character that breaks it. And that timer is lower with each spent extend.

 

>>3249
Yeah seems like my memory was faulty then.

 

Soku gaming?

 

>>3251
soku now?

 

>>3252
I'll be up in 20 minutes from now, gotta eat dinner first.

 

>>3253
sure just host when ready

 

>>3254
Hop on 5.16.27.147:10800 with giuroll!

 

>>3254
Ggs! Today I discovered that Patchy's DP is grazeable, lol. Gotta put her quite a few positions lower in my VILLAINS list.

 

>>3256
ggs, both Static Green and Emerald City are grazeable, yes
thanks for hosting

 

soku

 

>>3258
i can play a few games if you're still up

 

>>3259
to the wapchan lobby

 

GGs. Rare chance I get to run a set with your Sakuya, so I think now's a good time to ask, do you have any advice on how I could've handled it better?

 

>>3261
ggs, i wanted to polish her up a bit since these past few weeks i feel i have been playing her pretty poorly

>do you have any advice on how I could've handled it better?

try considering more options during oki cards, i.e. instant BE, more techrolls, pretty much everything you can do to mix up options will help make the setup harder to land

also try baiting out defensive cards more often, Sakuya's defense is awful and so is her techroll so if you are able to get past the defensive system cards you can bully her pretty badly and capitalize much better off of any neutral win

 

Practice Soku

 

>>3263
Hop on 37.112.19.164:10800 with giuroll!

 

>>3264
wtf give me a second

 


 


 

OH YEAH I DID IIIIIIIT! Not in a form of a blockstring but it is 421C->5c and not some stray hit still. Feels good man.
>>3267
Ggs!

 

>>3268
I think that webm perfectly summarizes my problem in this game, I'm trying to evade and escape to gain space and I get hit from anything on any angle, I really don't understand anything.
Why did I get hit there? I was grazing bullets….

 

>>3269
Notice
> counter hit
You certainly did try to pull off something funny here, and overall I notice I get a lot of counterhits on you. Know when your turn is over and concede when you have to pass it, and most importantly know your opponent's danger zones - from how much distance and how fast can you be hit.

 

A bit more soku gaming?

 

>>3270
>>counter hit
Damn I might have tried something…
>Know when your turn is over
This is the knowledge that I need to work for yeah.

 

>>3271
I can play another set, I'm waiting for something anyways.

 

>>3273
Hop on 37.112.19.218:10800!

 

>>3274
GGs
You have a lot of talent, you can already pick up new characters and roll out.
Also of course this >>3268 attack is invulnerable….

 

Yeah, who else could it be safely flying right through oarfishot if not Alice…
>>3273
Ggs again!

 

>>3276
Of fucking course Alice can do that as well…..

 

>>3275
> You have a lot of talent, you can already pick up new characters and roll out.
It's more of a combination of characters being simple to use and me finally confidently knowing at least basic fundamentals.
I wouldn't say I can decently play even my supposedly secondary main Yuyu still, in my hands she's mostly saved by low entry skill level to use, higher minimal skill-effort level to fight against and favourable matchups.

 

>>3278
I think I have not mastered the basic fundamentals of the game yet. Learning combos and setups takes a couple of hours and make a difference but they don't guarantee wins, it's something else that is really basic that I'm missing and I don't know what it is, when I play against random "beginners" on the soku lobbies they play around the same level as the average person here, which makes me think that everyone else learned something in soku school (lol) that I didn't.

 

>>3279
"If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles."
Or something like that. To win you need to know what opponent does and what you have against it, including both framedata knowledge for standoffs and general gameplan/neutral thought process of opponent, ideally picking optimal counter each time. After you know what are possibilities, which of them to expect most and what are your options you'll start seeing opportunities. For starters you can check few replays and see how exactly do you get hit most, there's bound to be certain pattern to it, and think of what you could've done to counter/prevent it. Then rinse and repeat, preferably it should happen during the games as you can test out your new ideas right away abd scrap/adopt them. I don't always do that myself honestly, but thoughtful and conscious gaming is how you get better over time.

 

>>3279
>Learning combos and setups takes a couple of hours and make a difference but they don't guarantee wins
No one thing will guarantee wins, it's a sum of all your separate skills that can give you an edge in a match. Speaking purely statistically, killing someone in 7 combos or in 4 with good optimization has a very big impact. That means you have to win neutral 3 more times, almost twice as much, just to close off a round. That means that even if the rest of your skills are at the exact same level, you will have to put in almost twice the effort in order to win rounds.

The point is not that you can get good entirely through good execution, but rather that any singular advantage you can get over the opponent will be equivalently important to reach the end goal of beating somebody else. If instead of working on your execution you improve your neutral to the point where you can win exchanges more consistently, the end result will be the same.

>it's something else that is really basic that I'm missing and I don't know what it is

If I had to guess from the posts above, it's probably a lack of full intentionality in your play. Honestly speaking, are you really 100% comfortable maneuvering your character at the moment? Obviously aside from flubs or misinputs in exceptional cases, are you really in full control of everything you do in a match? It's one thing if you make a lot of bad decisions or if your opponent reads you inside out, but it's an entirely different problem if you can't do what you want to do or if you're not even sure what you just did and why you did it.

Something beginners tend to do a lot is not pay attention to the rest of the screen because they are constantly looking at what their character is doing. This ties in with the issue above, because if you really are in full control of your character then you should already know what you are doing without having to watch over your character all the time. It's just like in a shmup, where you don't need to look at your hitbox the whole time because you should already be in control of your movement, and if you do then you won't be able to read the bullets coming your way. Except in this case movement and attacking is way more intricate and complex. The need for information is the same though, so this can't be an excuse to not pay attention to the rest of the screen.

So using this webm as an example >>3268, a counter-hit can only happen if you press something, but it looks like you weren't sure what happened. Did you really want to press a button there, while you already had a bullet on top of you? If you didn't then why did you do it regardless? And if you did then also why? Were you unaware that you were already sitting on top of a bullet? Were you expecting to be outside of its hitbox by the time you pressed something? Answering these honestly might lead you to the core issue.

 

>>3280
Yeah you are right, I tend to learn things on the go rather than to analyze things, the former has provide me more results since I look for "eureka" moments while trying everything from any angle, it's not perfect but it works sometimes, of course I try more methodical approaches after sitting down and reading about the game's technical knowledge and my own replays, and it gives me certain ideas that I bring to a new game, and works at the first time, only to get already learned by the opponent now I'm back to square one.
My current skill with this character has been achieved with 70% of what I said above, as in brute forcing solutions and 30% by-the-book knowledge.

>>3281
>Honestly speaking, are you really 100% comfortable maneuvering your character at the moment?
No, definitively not and this applies to the other characters as well, I admit I'm not completely used to the movement of this fightan.


>The point is not that you can get good entirely through good execution, but rather that any singular advantage you can get over the opponent will be equivalently important to reach the end goal of beating somebody else.

How I see it my execution is terrible that's why I lose neutral and I can't use the things I learned like the combos or setups and when I do get to use them it feels like it was a stroke of luck rather than skill. Like in the other post, I don't have a basic mindset for this game, I'm just running around seeing if I can execute things and win.

>Something beginners tend to do a lot is not pay attention to the rest of the screen because they are constantly looking at what their character is doing.

Huh it's the opposite for me, I have laser focus on the opponent instead because my playstyle relies more on reaction rather than outsmarting and trapping the opponent, as I'm looking for gaps were they make mistakes so I can take advantage of them. I guess it explains why I get hit by random things but it's a bad habit that may work for other games but doesn't seem to work here.
>Answering these honestly might lead you to the core issue.
After seeing the replay seems like I pressed block first then A, I don't why honestly, thinking about it now I might have thought that
>I grazed this bullet, I'm going to block just in case, then I'm going to press A if the opponent wants to jump so I will go first (because this happens often, so I try to anticipate)
But because I was my first time seeing this Yuyuko attack, I didn't expect it to happen, I have this bad habit of thinking that because I grazed bullets they will no longer do me harm even if they are still active so I attack ( happens a lot with Patchy's ring of fire)
Or could have been me missclicking something, I don't know…

 

>>3282
>I admit I'm not completely used to the movement of this fightan.
Then that should be your #1 priority. Movement in these games is absolutely key, transitioning too slowly between graze states, hard landings and other movement flubs are the easiest way to die to bullet spam, and that's without talking about spacing.

>How I see it my execution is terrible that's why I lose neutral and I can't use the things I learned like the combos or setups

Then there's good and bad news for you. The good news is that cleaning up execution is usually the easiest task in the process of improving. The bad news is that it's also the lamest part about it as well. As expected, execution is mostly a matter of doing things over and over again, until they become ingrained in muscle memory. You can try to do drills for specific sequences. For example you can set a CPU in training mode to spam huge range spells like LRE or Royal Flare and then try to graze the entirety of them while going from ground to air, air to ground, implementing airdashes and so on. For combos and strings there's that combo trials mod thing which might be worth checking out. Practicing combos is good not necessarily for the combos themselves, but because they help you get a better feel for your character's timings, like cancel windows or recovery times. It doesn't matter if you can't do a super optimized combo in a match, but if it helps you learn by instinct when you can cancel an airdash into an aerial or how early you can movement cancel certain bullets then that's already a huge win.

Honestly after that you could even try to fight against CPUs and try to do the things you find difficult as often as you can, in the end it's a completely mechanical skill so you don't need to play good neutral or defense or anything else to get better at it. You can focus on that when you play someone else.

As a sidenote, if you really find it extremely hard to do even the simplest actions consistently, then you might wanna reconsider your controller scheme of choice. The priority should be that you are comfortable with your controller so you can fight the opponent instead of fighting the game. There are many ways to do it, some people prefer using their right hand to move, some prefer WASD, some prefer jumping with space bar, and so on. Yes, it does take a while to relearn stuff if you change keys or even devices, but it's worth considering if you feel you are being hindered by an external factor.

>I don't have a basic mindset for this game

Another reason why learning some combos is good is because they can help you with this. When you start out and only know few combos from a couple starters, you can make it your goal to land those starters as often as possible. In that case your gameplan now has a goal, which is creating opportunities to land those moves. Is it a good gameplan by itself? Of course not, but it's enough to have a goal in mind and then you can start building on top of that. Maybe you can abuse your range to find those hits safely, or maybe you have to set up certain bullets to force the opponent into them, or maybe something else. But once you have a specific goal in mind, it's much easier to play around it and then see how your opponent reacts so you can start adapting accordingly.

>I guess it explains why I get hit by random things

If you get hit by random bullets then that's usually a movement mistake, you shouldn't be getting hit by random melee moves if you are really looking at your opponent that closely.

>seems like I pressed block first then A

The issue is, flight has a slight recovery before you are able to block, and if you had blocked successfully then the j.5A wouldn't have come out since you would have been stuck in blockstun. So in that case, that would be an execution error since you didn't account for the time you are unable to block during flight. That really seems like you would benefit a lot from getting more comfortable with movement.

 

>>3283
I'm going to sleep now but thanks for this response! I will read this later, for now I ask what's the best way to learn proper movement and to dodge/graze efficiently in this game?

 

>>3284
>for now I ask what's the best way to learn proper movement
Remember the options you have available for graze movement, so ground dash, high jump, flight and airdash. Your goal should be to transition between all of them seamlessly. A good way to practice this is by doing what I mentioned earlier
>set a CPU in training mode to spam huge range spells like LRE or Royal Flare and then try to graze the entirety of them
Try doing ground dash > high jump > 1 airdash > 1 flight back to the ground and then rinse and repeat. Afterwards you can omit dash or airdash, but the other two are still important since they're the only way to go from ground to air and air to ground while still grazing. You could also watch replays from other players and try to replicate their movement routes. The goal is to be able to do it automatically so it's not just about getting it right once, ideally you wanna be able to do it without even thinking about it. Also try exploring different ways to input a motion, like 8D vs 28 for high jump (same with hj7 and hj9) or 6D vs 66 for dash. You might find different uses for each of them.

>and to dodge/graze efficiently in this game?

Flight is the only inefficient graze method. That's because it costs spirit, unlike any other type of graze movement. This matters because certain spells are what's called Type-2 bullets, which means they drain spirit when you try to graze them. If you apply flight cost on top of that, you will end up killing yourself against these spells very quickly, which you might have already seen whenever someone tries to fly through Royal Flare or Swimming Oarfish Shot. Obviously flight has the advantage of freedom of movement which is very useful, but you still have to be careful with it.

Your goal is spend as much of your graze time in dash/high jump/airdash states. Dash is the easiest since you only have to hold 6D, but that will just make you run head first into your opponent's attacks. That's where high jumps and the aerial options come into play. If you are focusing on defensive grazing then you'll mostly use flight to fly back to the ground, while avoiding hard landing of course.

Once you can do that you can start mixing some bullets in between, which you can also cancel into high jumps/airdashes to maximize your graze time while still being able to fight back. You can also throw in some land cancel aerials, e.g airdash/flight > land cancel j.2A > instant high jump or something like that. But that becomes easier once you are comfortable with general movement.

 

>>3285
How do I avoid hard landing?

 

>>3286
Let go of the dash button before touching the ground

 

Soku gaming?

 

>>3288
yes please

 

>>3288
yes please

 

>>3289
Hop on 5.16.29.37:10800 with giuroll!

 

>>3289
Hop on 5.16.29.37:10800 with giuroll!

 

>>3291
GGs! Whatever you're doing to improve is clearly working out. Playing better than usual has become the new usual. Congrats on the double digit wincount and thank you for hosting. Very good soku.

 

>>3293
Ggs! I'm still not quite on level to challenge you on BO30 distances, but up to BO9 it sure is competitive now.
Also just realized that I've been using my general deck with 2 coins and hangeki all this time instead of full firepower one. I'm starting to get the idea of coin but it's USELESS against Alice and it was awful when 3/5 of my hand was filled with defensive cards I don't use. Deckonomicks is hard…

 

Soku tournament 10 tomorrow
>>3295



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